inconvenent truth

[Kauaikneelo]

Is that the same science that said we are flat too? All realitive.. cuz

[Mike Fernandez]

Rand I agree with you about using a single source like NASA. I won't get into the Gore bashing thing because having a single problem with him I wouldn't consider it bashing. But I do question his integrity.

But to take this problem a little further down the road, and think about the future, which is what I like to do, what is going to happen when India, and China have billions of people driving?
Is it unfair to try and deny them the right to drive and to let their economies grow like ours did in the 1800/1900's?
We made huge enviromental messes, some which we still haven't cleaned up.
After Iran gets rid of their wackjob leader, is it unfair to let them build a bomb, even though India, and Pakistan plowed ahead and built one? Now THAT is a scary situation!
Anyway, I'm glad this thread is going along well, and we can converse as kneelo friends.

[randiego]

heh heh Mike, sounds like we are of a like mind on more than a few things!

and yeah, nice to be able to present a point of view and discuss, for sure.

[badknees1]

We get alot of info about global warming. I see it as two subjects - 1 is the earth warming? and 2 are humans causing it in a significant way? It's hard to peel back the political rhetoric which has skewed the scientific facts mostly in the direction of the IPCC's and Gore's view that mankind is doing this. My kid's teacher showed Inconvinient Truth to his class with no mention that there are apparent inaccuracies in the film and that there is a body of scientists ( not on corporate payrolls) who feel that the science does not support worldwide cataclysm but instead moderate changes that can be adapted to. Some believe man has had little or no effect on the warming and that the sun is doing this. Why not show this to the kids too? I suggest viewing Jon Stossell's ABC 20/20 8 minute Give Me a Break segment expressing these opposing views. It's on Youtube.
We should be good stewards of the earth and people will go green because its the wise thing to do. They don't have to scare us, make it a US is bad, industry is Satan and mankind is evil thing, just show us both sides of the issue with the science and let us find the right thing to do, which is usually in the middle.

[Smokin Rock]

i think people should start hanging their laundry out and getting solar water systems and stop buying huge ridiculous vehicles that get terrible gas mileage. we should stop overpackaging all the things we buy.
we should do these things and more because they make sense. not because we're being scared by some unproven sci-fi scenario pitched by a hypocrit whose carbon footprint is the size of a Yeti's.
you have impressive credentials Mr. Ezak and i am enjoying this banter with you. however, you don't have to be a meteorologist to know that it's raining.
the last word is yours amigo.

[ezak]

Of course there isn't one end all solution to any adverse climate change. Scientists generally do not set policy governments do, and the Universe may have a different good/bad plan for us no matter what we do. Like anything else there is bad science as well as good to support any theory. Based on my experience it is my belief man has had a significant impact on the global climate since the industrial revolution, and that some actions should be taken to insure the quality of life on this planet. I haven't seen anything based on good data to refute this theory and I've seen A LOT of data. It's actually raining pretty hard here tonight too

On a similar note there was something pretty funny on our news a few weeks ago. The sports guy on the news finished his report, and the following weather guy said "Hey it must be nice to sit around and watch sports all day and get paid for it" To that the sports guy said "at least I don't just put my head out the window to tell everyone it's raining"

[ezak]

Hey Smokin Rock,

You live in one of the most beautiful places around, been to the Big Island a couple times and can't wait to go back. I wish there were more places like that, as opposed to some of the dumps I've had to live/work in.

Aloha Smokin Rock,

Erik

[Smokin Rock]

Hey Erik,
i'm a lucky buggah to get to live on such an amazing bit of paradise. it never gets old for me out of 11 major climate zones in the world, 9 of them are found here. snow capped volcanos next to bone dry lava deserts that are a short drive from lush rainforests.
the fishing fricken rocks!
when you make it back over....give me a shout. theres some good surf as well. if you know where to look
aloha,
mike

[Mike Fernandez]

Rand that was brilliant!!!

[Kauaikneelo]

Now that's is what I call real proof , cant wait for 2010!

[randiego]

Mike, can't remember where I found that, but I knew it would come in handy some day.

Smokin' Rock - can I get in on that?? I promise I won't bring up Al Gore

[Mike Fernandez]

Thanks Bee, backs my argument that carbon credits are a scam. European Union handing out too many credits, resulting in no emission cuts then Bush and the G8 have secret meetings without any press to report to the masses Meanwhile China and India prepare to have billions of their citizens driving in the next few decades. Comical
No, I don't have a solution, just don't come taxing me to pay for the credits because I'm American. I think Cipro is $5. a pill here, and I know it's .5cents in India. I'm thinking I already help support the worlds prescription drug bills.

[wino]

Agree'd that carbon credits are a scam. Anytime you create a commodity based system to try and control gross emitters(sp) it fails. The worst have the most money to buy up credits to keep on keepin on. Carbon credits are cheaper and a better tax shield than plant upgrades. Sad but true.

[fooj]

Good ol Penn & Teller.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1-qu_0KlMvw
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zUp6STGJ ... h_response
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C4uEMMg_ ... h_response

[Smokin Rock]

tha was pretty funny some less than stellar representatives for global warming.