Kneeboard Surfing USA Community Forum

I have a question. I have watched each video numerous times, (all four of Simon's movies including the first one that was all him, and Mondo Nibor, plus any short video clips on this website and the KSU Australia site).

I have noticed that except for a few very talented individuals, the boards with the fins moved forward seem to be very good at going straight up, very good at airs and floaters, very good at tube riding and bottom turns, however, on cutbacks many of them lose their drive. Instead of a cutback that accelerates back to the wave, I am seeing cutbacks that seem to turn and almost stop and wait for the wave to catch up to them.
Pivot might be a better word than stop. This was particularly evident in the Tahiti footage from Mondo Nibor.

I know that all Aussie boards and fin placements are not the same.
Each shaper has his own ideas. I am curious and wanted to open up some discussion.

No judgement, here. No right or wrong. Just curiosity.

Hi Bob

This move is so linked to body position & technique, probably the difference is more to do with that.
I reckon fins forward [16" - 18"?] drive a carving turn better as both wide point & fin work together.

Check Simon out in this shot & see how far his forward rail is buried on a fins forward design - album_showpage.php?pic_id=9885

Got your point bob.And if I remember correctly where was a thread on that subject.:Acceleration after cutting back.?
It is possible,but I 'd think a long walled wave would be of necessity.Surfing way out front,turning off the top[as the pic of the day]
Weight forward and turing ''down'' the wave face.Basically going down hill towards the peak.With enough distance between surfer/peak...should work

Don't remember who said what...coach...red?any body?

Good points. Flashpoints, that Simon rides, have the trailing fin farther back than the Parkes four fins or the Drift three fins. Also, and unrelated to which board company anyone chooses, Simon does cutbacks with more drive than other surfers who are not as good at the sport as he is.

It also seems that some of the Aussie board makers build their "big wave boards" with the trailing fin farther back than in their small wave boards.

Comments?

It's definitely down to technique rather than wave size. I can get a good boost of speed through cut backs out of my fins forward tri even in pretty junk waves (which I surf a lot of!). Driving the board is definitely the key as illustrated perfectly by the shot of Simon.

I like the fin cluster spread out in all my boards with my centre fin maybe a touch further back than most. I like that little bit of stiffness, it makes you have to drive the board on rail properly.

I'm sure I read somewhere on hear that the Drift boards have the fins set further back than most of a similar style. The side fins are also large with loads of flex in the tip if I remember rightly! Add that to the drive the Simpsons put in there turns and you have some serious speed and acceleration! I think its in Now and Then it's really apparent in a couple of turns at the Bombie on a good size right. Really accelerating back in to the pocket.

have you considered camera angle? any movement straight at a camera lens appears to be not moving until enough distance is covered to perceive a change in size, especially through long glass. witness the fin release sequence in Sparrow and Friends where simon appears to be on a flowrider, neat photography! but you can't seriously make the argument he's not moving.

After riding friah tucks for the last two decades I had my latest board shaped locally to my specs, similar to the old 4 fin tuck fin placement eg. smaller fins forward larger back,lots of tail area. I found it great in mushy,fuller waves but as i now weigh close to 90 kg's I found it too loose in larger wallier waves so I had trailer fin plugs installed and use it as a thruster in bigger waves, in crappy waves I go back to the twin or 4 fin set up for a bit of loose fun. I also change the trailer fin size to suit wave size and shape. But to answer the Question I definateley think it is all about STYLE and SURFER ABILITY and WAVE QUALITY put all these factors together and you get a great video. As for fin placement WHAT WORKS FOR YOU......... DO IT

Simon and the Simpsons are one thing. Most of us are not "them". It is the other people who are surfing without much drive out of their turns. The footage I saw was from the beach.

I guess it boils down to: No board will do everything. Pick the best board and fin placement for your style and type of wave you surf.

Not sure I agree with that Bob.

By all accounts Gigs surfed brilliantly on borrowed boards in Santa Cruz.
Its more down to the talent of the surfer.....something we can all work towards......but its not obligatory

ps simon's in the simpsons

I am sure I have spoken about this before, no board can do everything is very true......in my mind

this is how I see it......and that means just that

different boards for different waves

but every board design will have a positive in it somewhere

to me, a good surfer can adapt his or herself to every board they ride. And make the most out of its design. If it feels like a bad board, then your not adjusting to its positives, your adjusting to its negatives.

These guys all come out of a cutback with speed, when the wave will allow them. So for me, its the mindset of the surfer, his learning ability to adapt to different boards and different waves with body and weight placement. They funnel this knowledge into their board design and their wave reading knowledge

The best surfers adapt very well to all conditions and ride the positives of that board to the fullest.

ie.

If it was only the board that made you surf well, then if your riding a board thats made for say Simon's mindset, there would be alot of Simon's in the US and Oz right now


Gigs riding different boards at the world's, speaks volumes, he adapts his mindest very quickly and learns while its happening. A True sign of great surfer

If your not in this mindset, you may ride a board 20 times before you feel like you have had a good surf, you may never like this board. The more boards and waves you ride the positives on, the faster your mindset will adapt and the better you will become

Interesting...

well said steeno

Steeno you ARE the coach, well said. The ability to read the wave is critical, I'm gonna have a talk with my mind to get it set right. The board won't listen anyway.

Steenos wrote: different boards for different waves

but every board design will have a positive in it somewhere

To continue that thought, I think you can learn something from every board. I haven't been doing this for as long as many of you have, but every one of the six boards I've spent time with has taught me something. For me matching the board to the wave it is definitely part of the fun. And rewriting that map as my skills develop has been interesting as well.

It is also why I enjoy working with a shaper like Mr Hart. I tell him how a board or two that he and I know (whether his or not) feels, how I want a new board to be different in what conditions and why, and he gets it. We noodle on it, what I think should be different, his reflections on that, and -- BAM -- a new board comes (ok, months later a new board comes :-). A new tool to try and feel and play with. A new tool to worship Mom Nature with. And a new touchstone for me and the shaper to continue our conversation.

-- Jack

I think your onto something Steenos I recently tried a friends US style KB a Romonovski he had imported ( he was mezmarized by his website I think) It is a nice board....... But it was very different to what us Aussies are used too.......But its not as though i couldn't adapt to it, the first wave I paddled for I caught,(paddled well) held in the line well, a bit of a bitch to turn, but hey,I know the "FIN PLACEMENT" was totally different to my style. My friend loves his Romonovski and he has adapted to it,he is nurturing" His new style " I think it Is an indivdual sport and we all express ourselves on our equipment in our own way. We are fortunate enough to see examples of those who have perfected our craft, & preserved it on media we can all learn from and respect.