Australian Champion - Discussion

[MJ]

Thanks for your response to the thread Smurf, it’s nice to see some input by people in the know. So far we have had over 1300 views of the forum with only 10 contributors.

Stan your point is well taken and if I am going to “Honk”, to use Red’s term, it would be hypocritical not to put my hand up to offer assistance to the Victorian club.

I think the guts of Smurf’s comment is as follows: All that can be done by those willing to do it is being done to the best of their ability. And I don't think anyone can argue with that.

This has taken Kneeboarding to the point we now find ourselves. With a strong National circuit that will no doubt be expanding to at least one more comp in the very near future.

Perhaps the crux of our discussion here is as our sport has developed and we have achieved a critical mass the ways of the past were what was required to get the job done. However for future development we need to have the organisational building blocks in place to take us to the next level. This will provide positives in how the organisation is perceived both by its members/competitors, the existing surf infrastructure and third parties we deal with. It can only help in people taking our organisation and ourselves more seriously as a significant body within the Australian surfing infrastructure.

[Kev]

... So far we have had over 1300 views of the forum with only 10 contributors...

you get that

perhaps some of us are not as focused on the comp details or the club infrastructure as others are

this is the Contest section of the forum and as basically a non contest surfer I don't feel the right to speak

the only contests I have every entered was one long ago and Church based at Wilsons Prom ... (bit of a dud really)
and just recently , two comps
as part of the Sunshine Coast Kneelo Crew monthy gatherings
which are very low key and socially based ... bare in mind that there are points and I think a trophy is on offer.

Do you need a club to run a comp ?
should a club be there JUST to run a comp ?
where does the money go ? etc

rhetorical questions yes ... but with an element or seriousness


let me just say
the guys in Queensland do turn out for a monthly comp/gathering
some guys drive for more than an hour and some 2 hours to do so

I know this is far from Aust Champ stuff
but if the Victorians can't get a regular friendly consistant group together
... why so much bleeting about the KSA not involving us
yeah I know no one actually said that
but that's the impression I get
(yes a Vic club might be getting it together right now ... a good thing)

I have run forums and web based clubs
and a mission statement is a handy thing to know why and what we are here for
...
a forum is also handy IF it is used and used wisely
the SouthAust kneelos tried but it didn't stick

KSUSA seems to be the only one surviving

apart from access to entry forms, what does the KSA site bring to us ?

anyway enough from me as I'm not a comp surfer and I'll get out of the line up

[red]

Good stuff guys
Keep it coming
I'll chime in when I'm back from honeymoon
Red

PS I'm signed up for the Vic Kneelos and will bring Coopers to the first comp.

[knee_boarder]

Thanks for your response to the thread Smurf, it’s nice to see some input by people in the know. So far we have had over 1300 views of the forum with only 10 contributors.

Well I'm interested hence why I view but as I'm happy with the way Dunc's running the British Kneelo Club and I was at the AGM, and being British, I can't really do a lot about Aussie kneeboarding can I (well apart from watch in awe at the likes of Sparrow!)?

[Kev]

... when I'm back from honeymoon ...
PS I'm signed up for the Vic Kneelos and.....

if I don't see you before hand
Congrats, Good Luck and best wishes and all that

and I too will be signed up for the Vic Club as soon as I see Jim
( big thanks to Jim )
even if the money does head towards comp based activities
if someone puts a camera in my hand I try to take pictures and /or video

I'll even edit the video and do the post on the audio etc ... FCP and ProTools HD ... cos that's another one of the hobbies which also include web stuff

[RMcKnee]

... So far we have had over 1300 views of the forum with only 10 contributors...

you get that

perhaps some of us are not as focused on the comp details or the club infrastructure as others are

this is the Contest section of the forum and as basically a non contest surfer I don't feel the right to speak

How do you get to count the number of views of a thread? (which is what I assume is referred to above)

I'm with Kev. Contests, club infrastructure and organisation is not something I'm particularly interested in. There are plenty of people like me, and we all have something to contribute to the sport, the site, or maybe just life in general on this third stone from the sun. Could be that the 10 out of 1300 ratio is a reflection of the number of kneelos who feel the same as Kev and I. Or perhaps everyone's happy with the way things are. Or perhaps your average comp-head is pretty apathetic, which I doubt.

I have nothing against those who want to have a club or a contest. I have nothing but respect and admiration for the great surfers who in various ways fit that mould; Farrer, Steeno, Smurf, Stanley, etc etc etc.
I may be wrong here, but didn't the first surf clubs spring from the banding together of small groups of like-minded individuals whose common purpose was the sharing of stoke? Surely that's still possible. We had a bunch of old farts meet on a Tweed back beach only last month to spead a bit of stoke around.

Is this view too simplistic?

[albert]

We had a bunch of old farts meet on a Tweed back beach only last month to spead a bit of stoke around.

Is this view too simplistic?

It is and it isnt... You can do what you have proposed here, but its not going to determine who the Australian Champion is (the intended purpose of this topic). The competitive nature of humans will undoubtedly interfere with this ideal of yours once you start gathering greater and greater numbers, sooner or later someone is going to want to be the best and others will want to challenge them and more will want to know who is the best.
Simply gathering and hanging out is great, but it will not resolve the basic need we all have to compete in some way, shape or form.

Then again, most comps are 90% gathering anyway in my view, you only spend 20 minutes in the water, and two days hanging out, talking to people, sharing stories, etc.

I think that some of the previous posts have had a somewhat negative tone about them, bordering on inflamatory. I would like to suggest that we think a bit harder before posting and try to keep things constructive. Bashing the current administration is only going to make them walk away and then instead of having three comps we could end up with none.

[womble]

Albert,

The statement of 1300+ views on this forum with only 10 contributors is slightly flawed … the viewer can be random non-member types and multiple looks by the same people.
It is however a lot of views … fantastic.

Your other analogy, being that … I think that some of the previous posts have had a somewhat negative tone about them, bordering on inflammatory.
Well that’s what these discussions are all about …putting your opinions on the table.
Bordering on the inflammatory … wow … only if you don’t agree with the statement being made... Not everyone agrees …I think we can agree on that.
From what my feeble brain can see … most of the posts on here have been reasonably supportive of the administration …
but questions must be asked … and people held accountable for their actions.

To all the people actively involved in running the clubs, organisations and competitions … congratulations … your efforts don’t go unnoticed …
Some of the time unfortunately the notice is negative.
Opinions mean little without substance …you will always have agitators … happy to criticise but unwilling to contribute … don’t let their negativity bring you down.
Positive criticism … on the other hand … is necessity if you want to move forward … and should always be taken seriously.
If anything positive arises from the ashes when this topic burns to its conclusion … and undoubtedly it will (on both accounts) …then one would have to say it was a success.

[Kev]

We had a bunch of old farts meet ... Is this view too simplistic?

It is and it isnt... You can do what you have proposed here, but its not going to determine who the Australian Champion is (the intended purpose of this topic). ... but it will not resolve the basic need we all have to compete in some way, shape or form.
a somewhat negative tone ...

yep
I think both RMcknee and albert get most of where I was coming from

by the way albert ... you and Tim had me very entertained on the Sunday of the PI
excellent work
and great work from MJ who changed strategty in the shore dump and went for a ??? something that we could all see ... was never going to work
but I swear I could hear Mark saying " I can still make it !!! "

I don't know what the manouver was supposed to be BUT I have named it the MJ
others called it the coat hanger, the pole axe, a shirt front ... etc
excellent work there Mark

is this off topic ?
not quite
Although some of you guys have " the basic need we all have to compete in some way, "
some of us don't.
and yet are quite happy to tag along and enjoy surfing at our own rate and level
my water time and body could never give me the skill or fittness to keep up
we don't want to be bin fodder or a souce of money so the top 16 can fight it out
as much as it is fun to watch

The Australian Champion does need to come from the widest view and not just from one comp
so somehow it needs the widest participation in all the contributing events.

not an easy task when the kneelo bretheren have other comitments with work and family

The Australian Champion also need involvement from the National body and therefore the State based authority ... perhaps
as to whether the lower level clubs are required or beneficial I don't know as I don't have the experience.

As womble said
" reasonably supportive of the administration … but questions must be asked … and people held accountable ... "
accountable is a strong work but I get where he is coming from

more discussion
and more explaination of why and how things work will always be useful

the National and State body web sites could be a little better
http://www.surfingaustralia.com/members.aspx?siteid=4
The Queenslanders have a pseudo mission statement and a membership application form
and a few reasons to join
WA is ok
NSW does have a membership form
SA tells me it will cost $44

but for Vic ... nothing
same goes for Tas

The KSA site is very comp based
I couldn't find application forms at KSA ... just entry forms

but it recently has been updated with the news that a new a independent Victoria Kneeboard Club is very close
there has been much talk over the past two years and it may now happen

off topic
not quite
it was probably the talks during the PI Classic and the efforts of Jim to really push this from talk to a reality.

Bottom line
keep talking to each other and make an effort where ever possible
and cut some slack to the guys that do make the effort and give of their time

[hart]

Positive criticism … on the other hand … is necessity if you want to move forward … and should always be taken seriously.

Now there's another good post..

And sorry for snipping because everything written made sense



hart

[Justin Stevens]

Well, here I come, another silly goose honking along behind the gooses that have already contributed to this thread. I think there’s a lot of merit in having this conversation, so thanks to Budgie for initiating it, and MJ for expanding on his theme. Thanks also to Jamie and Smurf who alluded to past happenings that help me better understand some of the sensitivities revealed in this thread.

By the way even though it sounds like it might be too late for this, I reckon they should share it around the various states when it comes to the Aussie title. I often think I’d it would be good to see how the state-of-the-art is in WA.

I’d just want to touch on two things that this thread has brought to light, of which as a new comer, I was not fully aware. These two things are; 1) some sort of ‘dark past’ (wrote Smurf) of ‘woeful rorts’ from which some people ‘are scared to show their faces these days’ (wrote Jamie) – all sounds pretty sordid, and 2) an the organising apparatus of KB’ing here in Australia at risk of falling over if just a couple of the hard working individuals that run it decide that they want to move on. And, worryingly, Jamie suggests people would be happy to step aside (I hope they don’t). All this sounds over blown but in reality it is just a few diehards that keep the wheels moving on this show.

Okay, on 1) I’ve only been surfing comps in recent times (since the PI event of 2006 in fact) and during that time have got to know John Clingan, Wayne Jennings and others involved in the running and organisation of the KSA circuit. Let me say these are good people working hard for KB’ing, and deserve respect and support. The best way to protect office bearers from, rumour and innuendo, and unreasonable scutiny is through process and disclosure. Process and transparency was apparently absent in the ‘dark past’, and some involved had their good reputations ruined. The reputations of decent blokes like the John’s and Wayne’s involved in organised KB’ing should not be exposed to the risks inherent in holding position when money is involved and transparency and disclosure are not. So on this score the production and dissemination of financial statements must be seen as a good thing and something worth aiming for.

Right, now to 2) the other thing that has come up in this thread is how worryingly thin on the ground are those that are actively engaged in organising organised KB’ing in Oz. I should’ve twigged to this earlier because when at the seven KSA comps I’ve participated in, it’s just the same fellas doing most of the work. This low level of engagement exposes organised KB’ing in this country to the risk of falling over if people get sick of all the thankless work. How can we strengthen engagement at this level in KB’ing, and provide the active people with the thanks and recognition that they deserve? One way is to have an organisation with a membership and a vote. I’d like to be a member of an organisation that represents kneelos in Australia, and be able to vote for John Clingan as the president of that association. He and his ilk are doing a lot of good work and I’d like to be able to express my appreciation by voting for them to head up an official collective of Aussie kneelos. Then looking to the future, from such a collective we could nominate contest committees to foster engagement and spread the workload. This would bring others in who are keen so they can learn the ropes, and the baton can then be passed on, or people can take time out or wind back a bit if they want. It is through this type of active engagement that grassroots and sporting organisations grow and prosper. (And, the kneelo community has many skills and contacts: photographers, those with Internet skills, industry links, even accountants).

Okay, one more thing that has come up in this thread, and something announced at the PI presentation, was the possibility of the establishment of a top 16 circuit and a qualifying circuit for KB’ing here in Australia. I’d like to register my opposition to such a notion. Number one, KB’ing is too small to support such a structure – KB’ing needs to get bigger before this would become a viable option. How would we decide this top 16? Out of the top place getters in the KSA circuit? But this would mean that many good surfers who only surf in one or two comps would never rank highly, and so would never crack it into the ‘elite’ circuit. With the current format we can watch all the best surf against each other. The current format is, as Albert points out, to most of us an opportunity to gather - be out there in the water with the hot surfers, talk KB’ing, catch up, have a go (never know when you’ll get lucky) and see the best battle it out. It’d be good to see the top 16 surf it off, but that’s generally what happens anyway once you get to the quarters in the KSA comps I’ve been at.

Justin

PS: Just to report that the lake here in Canberra is flat again today. Did you WAKA’s get to run your point score? Hope you got waves.
JS

[jamie]

Well thought out and written justin.
Please dont mistake my ramblings regarding rorts as being in anyway reflective of the guys running the show now. The significant issues of the past were that kneeboarding allowed the same guy a couple of opportuniities to line his pockets while doing the work that no one else wanted, so we looked the otherway or didnt know better.
I am sure that to some people, the paying of judges, head judge, contest director and support staff at Phillip island seems over the top. However the contest is in great shape and far and away the longest running kneelo contest in the world.
Back on thread the Phillip is kneelo comp should be the Australian title(surfing Australia endorsed) until another contest has been run at the same standard for a period of two years or the running of the contest is handed over to the local state surfing Association - who would be contracted to run the event.
By same standard - paid experienced head judge and paid panel of experienced judges and independent contest director.
This is in my opinion the best for a contest to run, i couldnt put it togehter myself but am in awe of the show that Neil puts together each year.

In discussing the past its relevant to point out that form 1988 until 1996 i was heavily involved in the running of many events.
At many of these events I sold contest t-shirts to competitors. These t-shirts were supplied and printed by me at my exspense and any profits or losses were mine.
I also did the draws and seeding for events in a very adhoc manner that I thought to be reasonable at the time but in hindsight were unacceptable.
I continue to supply garments to the phillip island kneelo contest in a non commercial endeavour.

A few years after swearing off being involved in organiising events i had my best competitive results. All of my significant contest results have been achieved with paid independent judges, this definetley influences my ideas.

[albert]

I should’ve twigged to this earlier because when at the seven KSA comps I’ve participated in, it’s just the same fellas doing most of the work. This low level of engagement exposes organised KB’ing in this country to the risk of falling over if people get sick of all the thankless work. How can we strengthen engagement at this level in KB’ing, and provide the active people with the thanks and recognition that they deserve?

Thats a very good question Justin, and I hope to be able to at least answer it in part as an outside observer. My opinion is that strengthening engagement of more volunteers is a very difficult thing to do, as volunteers are just that and by definition hold no responsibility to the organisation to which they are volunteerding (sorry if that sounds convoluted). I am certain that in the past, people have volunteered to accomplish tasks and later fail to complete these tasks in a timely manner if at all. This, I think is the source of the problem. Leaving those with some sense of responsibility to get everything up and running. Volunteers are not only required to put their hands up, but they are also required to accomplish the tasks they propose to help with. I am not certain exactly where the KSA requires assistance, but I know that the more hands get put up the better.

I would seriously encourage anyone with the desire to help out to do the following; 1. contact any one or all of the ksa contacts and/or local club presidents; their contact info is available through the KSA site, 2. tell them where you think you could help the KSA, and finally 3. keep in mind that every task completed for the benefit of KSA is going to benefit the sport we all love.

PS: Just to report that the lake here in Canberra is flat again today. Did you WAKA’s get to run your point score? Hope you got waves.
JS

It was pretty much flat here too. We didnt run a pointscore, we just surfed some ankle slappers at shitties and went to the pub

[dua anjing]

PS: Just to report that the lake here in Canberra is flat again today. JS

Pretty sure that's because they've finished for the year. I guess Canberra will be pretty short of hot-air and bs until parliament restarts in the new year..

[feralmick]

K.I.S.S. Keep it simple, surfers.

Firstly, i`d like to thank the organisers of KSUSA for running this site, where we can swap
ideas, stories, pics, jolks or just say hello.
Secondly, well done Glen, on becoming Australian champion. Ex Victorian, good surfer and
nice bloke.
Congrats also to Simon for his win.
I`m relatively new to this site and the KSA comps,and have had questions go
through my head, but fortunately kept quite and gradually learning who`s who etc.
Went to 3 great KSA comps this year.
All had a great family atmosphere, pretty good weather and waves. Coffs was particularly good.
Gave me an excuse for 3 holidays and trips away.
$75 can seem a lot at times, but to mingle with other kneelos for 2 days, have 2 surfs(in my case)
and watch some top surfers competing against world champions, it`s bloody good value.
Most of you in this thread have got more than your entry fee back in the prize packs.
How good is that?
Hat`s off to the people who put these comps together. Certain people put in hard work before, during
and afterwards for our benefit.
I`m guessing that much of the work was voluntary, by people who work full time and raise families.
We all have ideas on this topic, which will change from time to time. Like all of us, different states
do things differently, but i don`t think i saw a grumpy face at a comp this year.
Kneeboarding IS a small sport, with pleanty of good, competitive surfers and few dramas.
Hope we can all do our part to keep it enjoyable.
Say g`day to the organisers, eventually they`ll get to know us, and share
their ideas and problems.
Happy Christmas everyone.